The problem with corporate welfare

I live in a small town, they had to take out a loan some years back because our local school was destroyed by a tornado. The loan was 34 million dollars, and they got the school board to agree to pay 550,000 dollars a year into this scheme. It will be more than is required to pay the loan, it is a revenue stream for the city on the backs of our children.
  Recently they drew up a new loan for the city for 12.4 million dollars. This money has been set aside for  “city improvements”. These improvements  come in the form of a new building for the local Hyundai Plant. This new building will bring 100 new jobs to the area. This building will be provided for the company, the land will be developed for the company. The Plant does not have to pay local taxes (like every major company in Alabama).

Let’s do the math. 100 workers, averaging 12 dollars an hour, 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year.  250,000 a year “pumped into the local economy”. With a tax rate of 8.5% in the city – 1% for the county and 3% for the state. So 4.5% taxes on 250,000 dollars. 11,250 a year in tax revenue. Not counting property taxes. so 11,250 into 12.4 million would be . . . 111.2 years with no interest paid.  Seems like a great investment guys.

An Abortion “Debate”

This is a debate that ensued after I asked for more information from a local television station about a story where an abortion clinic was being put before a possible closing. I was not happy with the information given.

Me: Are you able to give a list of these alleged violations? I am sorry, but in a state so rampantly anti-abortion, with conservative activists in government roles running roughshod over rules, maybe a little clarification is in order. “Inadequate Patient Care” does not seem like a quantifiable issue.

Them: Well, would you rather have another clinic run by someone like Kermit Gosnel?

Me: I would rather have proof in a land of make believe, like alabama.

Them: Do you support the termination of innocent children? What proof are you looking for? We all know that a “doctor” who is willing to chop up an unborn child doesn’t care about life, they don’t really care about women, that only care about money. The love of money is the root of all evil. Do you condone the mass slaughter that is taking place in our country? More people should educate themselves about those “unwanted blobs of tissue”, as they’re referred to. Those blobs of tissue are babies, and they deserve a chance to live.

Me: Your feelings aside, the United States of America has decided that women have a right to have an abortion at their choosing for their own reasons. You may not like it, but that is the reality of the situation. Implying that I am immoral, or evil, or uncaring is an attack against me, not my argument. You think doctors get rich off of preforming these procedures in little clinics across Alabama? You think this is a profit driven industry?

Tell me, what are you going to do with those children who are not wanted, turned over to the state, sent to the lesser schools, having lesser opportunities, not having stability or a home, or food, or clothing other than the bare minimum. Are you going to vote for higher taxes to house these children? To provide them with a proper education and the skills necessary to thrive in this country? Are you willing to raise taxes and support expanded sexual education programs to help prevent the need for these procedures? And it is seen as a need by the only people that matter in these very personal decisions? Do you accept that some abortions are done because of the need to save the mother’s life? Do you understand that little girls are molested and raped and they do not want to or are physically unable to carry to term?

It is their right to do this if they choose to do this. That is the settled law, and has been for 50 years. And if it were illegal, we would revert back to the old ways of abortion, and if you care for life you should not want that either. Education about sex is our best hope. Real, honest, fact based sexual education. Abstinence is effective, Hormones are persuasive, Knowledge is helpful.

Them: So, because a child is unwanted, do they deserve to die? Margaret Sanger, a known racist helped to start planned parenthood, to control the minority population. Children who may be born with Down syndrome are almost always aborted. Just because something may be legal, it doesn’t make it morally right. Slavery used to be legal. If we, as a Nation, taught our children morals and family values, there would be no need for so many abortions. But, we are teaching that you should be able to do whatever you want, and have no consequences. Life should be valued. Now, as far as rape situations go, why should the rapist get to live and the innocent child die? Having an abortion will not help the poor girl overcome what happened to her, studies show that abortions only add feelings of guilt. The poor girl needs therapy, and love and support from the community. The baby could be adopted by a loving couple, and the rapist should be castrated and rot in prison. If we were harsher with violent criminals, less crime would occur. Abortion is never the answer to any problem….it only results with a dead baby.

Them:  Oh, and less than 2% of abortions performed are from rape victims. Its very rare nowadays for an abortion to be performed to save a woman’s life.

Me : Again, you are ignoring the fact that it is legal, and my original question was for proof of something. Adoptions? Have you ever looked at the statistics of unadopted children already born in this country. Family Values? Are you serious? SEXUAL EDUCATION, not some impossible moral perfection. They can’t afford a child, are you gonna provide this magic therapy? We have the highest prison population in the WORLD, you have no idea how reality works.
I agree abortion is a terrible thing, but it is not what you make it out to be, and it is not as simple as “adopt, family values, shoot rapists”. There are real economic reasons, poor educational reasons, ignorant religious reasons, and plain cruel human being reasons. I find you statement of all down syndrome babies being aborted absurd. If it were remotely true there wouldn’t be any babies with down syndrome, ergo you make this stuff up.
Where did you get your, claimed, factual statement of 2% and “rare” medical reasons for abortion? Do they ask on the abortion information form for the reason you are there today?
Rape
Incest
Medical
Other

Really? you just pull numbers out of thin air.

Them: No, I have not made up any facts, I have actually read the statistics on different websites. Why don’t you look up statistics then, if mine are ridiculous? And, I said that most down syndrome children are aborted, not all. How would you describe abortion, since its not what I make it out to be? I make it out to be the termination of an innocent life, what would you call it? Sexual education should be taught, yes, but it should be taught along with family values, and a moral ground to stand on. However, back to your original question…who knows what they are being shut down for…but who cares? You are more concerned over why the clinic is being shut down, than you are over why people would think that it’s acceptable to destroy and discard an innocent baby. You are asking the wrong questions.

Me: And all statistics I have review were voluntary answers to questions, this means that it is not scientifically representative of anything. Those that are raped are less likely to even report the rape let alone report that they had an abortion due to the rape to a stranger. Same with incest. I am sorry, but I have looked at the stats, and the stats are vague at best and woefully wrong,at worst, and there is no way to know what the real percentages are. That is why I asked if there were a questionnaire after every abortion asking for the reason. It is ludicrous to assert that you know the reasons for the procedures when medical records are private, and this question is not asked of every person who has the procedure.

I am done answering your questions as you ignore mine.

I said it is not as simple as you make it out to be. You claim that if you just have the baby everything is better. I need some sort of reason to think that. Abject poverty, malnutrition, starvation, the perpetuation of teen pregnancy feeding teen pregnancy, desperation due to poverty that most cannot escape. You want these people born, tell me how to give them lives, not just life.

Them: Please don’t think that I’m personally attacking you, I don’t know you. However, I wish people were more educated as to what really goes on. If you see photos of an aborted baby, you would question as to why we have allowed this to go on. Honestly, do some research and just take a look at the pics.

Me: Back to my original question. What proof is there of any wrong doing. That is all I asked for. not a debate on settled law, or a morality play about abortions. All I want to know is what the allegations are other than “Inadequate Patient Care”.

Again, I did not come here to argue over settled law. You can be against abortion, you can not have one. You have the option of having one if you find it necessary.

No, I will not look at pictures, because I try not to be morbid and dwell on things. I also do not stare at cancerous lungs to convince myself not to smoke, or rotten colons to avoid aspartame. I do not look at cleft pallets to make myself averse to certain chemicals, I do not look at head wounds from bullets to reaffirm my stance on guns. I do not search for pictures of amputees to reaffirm my disgust with landmines. Again, I am not morbid purposefully.

I understand your stance, and it is yours to hold. You are perfectly right to hold your opinion as important, because it is. Again I did not come here to debate abortion, I came to ask the news organization to report a more detailed version of the story. The reasons for the hearing, the list of supposed rules that were broken. The standard used to determine those rules and how they are decided to be broken.

Abortion is a very volatile topic. With arguments on both sides having valid points, but neither side wants to hear the other sides points. You do not want to hear about the realities of a world where abortion is illegal, and I do not want someone trying to shame me into looking at pictures of aborted fetuses to try and trigger some sense of outrage, or disgust, or aversion. I have seen them, I have also seen what most abortions look like. Unformed, brainless masses of cells, incapable of feeling, or awareness, or anything else. They are potential people. And you did not say most you said almost always in reference to down syndrome.

Them: I guess if the child will be poor, or unwanted, or its mother is a teenager, or it will be unloved, or sickly, we should kill it. Hitler would be so proud of this…..you know since he thought that unwanted, handicapped, and poor people should be killed…..and the people voted for him. Slavery was legal, and it was legal to kill your slave. But hey, it’s legal, and nobody wants them, and we sure don’t want to have to pay for them….we have to send billions of our money to other countries to help them out, especially the ones who hate us. We don’t need to teach our children to be responsible and to value their bodies, let’s just throw condoms at them and hope for the best…they’re gonna do it anyways…..and if a girl gets pregnant, we can just lie to her and tell her to abort the blob of tissue that is leaching off of her body. Yes, let’s do that…oh wait, that’s what we already do. It doesn’t make it right.

Me: Stop trying to put words in my mouth, and I applaud your constraint in comparing me to hitler.. bravo. And your nonsensical foreign aide diatribe. We are currently CUTTING programs that feed and house poor children right now, not because we do not have sources we could pull from, but because the “pro-life” movement is not pro-life, it is pro-birth. And I said sexual education, not throwing condoms at children. I said information. If a moral foundation were all it took, then the states of Alabama and Mississippi (highest religious populations in the Nation) would not also have the highest teen pregnancy rates. Noone is advocating lying to pregnant girls, you are incapable of reasoned debate. Have a nice day, I am done arguing with your emotions.

Them: I’m not comparing you to Hitler, I’m comparing how people view unborn children to how Hitler viewed unwanted people…just kill it. What I wrote, is how society is dealing with these issues….I just know that we, as a society should be doing things differently. Our priorities are screwed up, and children should come first. I agree with sexual education, but I think that we should go about things a completely different way….I’m sure you realize that things aren’t going so well in this country….what we’re doing isn’t working.

I stopped responding after getting the same responses and no answers to any of my questions. I understand the feelings involved in this issue, but I need more information than attacks against feelings.